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. Operating Instructions AUTOMATIC 11.15am Boiler Controls For the user Logamatic 2107 Please read carefully before use. Production This product has been tested and is certified for both the US and Canadian markets and meets all applicable US and Canadian standards. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. 53 Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications.62 Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Your heating system offers a wealth of further useful functions.
Some examples of these are: – the automatic warm weather shutdown (WWSD) – the vacation function Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Finally, the key word index in Chapter 14 will help you to quickly find the terms you are looking for. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications.
(gas or oil) and heats the water inside the boiler. Using pumps, this hot water is then transported through the piping system to the radiators or the DHW tank. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. – closed or open windows – infiltration Fig.
2 Influences on the room climate You should take these factors into consideration to achieve a comfortable room temperature. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. (+20) (+15) (+10) (+5) (±0) (-5) (-10) (-15) – outdoor reset temperature control with room temperature influence Outdoor temperature in °F (°C) Fig.
3 Characteristic heating curve (example) Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. With this kind of control no thermostatic radiator valves should be installed in the reference room. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications.
In this case, the radiators are supplied at a higher supply temperature than the radiant heating system. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. If you reduce the daytime room temperature, for example, from 70°F (21°C) to 68°F (20°C), you will save around six percent on your heating bill.
Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Dispose of the Logamatic 2107 controls packaging in an environmentally responsible manner.
Z Dispose of defunct controls in an environmentally acceptable form, through an approved organization. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Item 5: ON/OFF switch Item 6: Keys for basic functions Item 7: Dial Item 8: Keys for extended functions Item 9: Display Item 10: Flap Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Flap Keys for the extended functions are hidden behind the flap.
You must therefore open the flap in order to use the extended functions. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. LED lights up = setback heating mode (timer is disabled if AUT is OFF). 'Flue gas test' button This is used by your heating contractor to measure the flue gases and perform a combustion test.
Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Item 9: 'Enter' key – Returns to standard display Item 10: 'Install' key – Call up the service level Item 11: 'Display' key – Select the standard display Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Days of the week: 1 = Monday 2 = Tuesday 3 = Wednesday 4 = Thursday 5 = Friday 6 = Saturday 7 = Sunday Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. 'AUT' (Fig.
Z Press the 'AUT' key to start automatic mode with program (see 'Changing the operating mode' page 22) (Fig. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. DHW tank and the pipes of the heating system. The system is only protected from frost, if it is completely dry.
Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. The operating hours are represented by a 5-digit display. The two numbers are HRS RUN1 of different sizes. Displ Please note that this counter cannot be reset. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. (day mode) or setback heating mode (night mode) (see 'Selecting manual mode' on page 23).
The selected operating mode remains set until changed. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. 'Night mode' key lights up. USER NOTE The DHW heating is also switched off when you select 'Night mode' (factory default), i.e.
The tank temperature is not maintained. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. 70°F (21°C) is set at the factory for the normal heating mode (day mode) and 63°F (17°C) for setback heating mode (night mode). Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. To set the room temperature for night mode, simply repeat the process described above, in this case pressing the 'Night mode' key, rather than the 'Day mode' key. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. The DHW heating is set at the factory to 140°F (60°C) for automatic mode.
USER NOTE If a recirculation pump is installed for the DHW, it will be activated at the same time as the DHW heating. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. °F Release the 'DHW' key. The DHW temperature is saved. Input range Factory setting 86 – 140°F (30 – 60°C) 140°F (60°C) DHW temperature Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications.
SOLAR Release the 'Heating zone' key to save your input. Press 'AUT' to select automatic mode. SOLAR AUT The display reads 'SOLAR AUT'. 12.25pm Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. 'Night mode' key, rather than the 'Day mode' key. The solar pump remains off permanently, regardless of the system status. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications.
USER NOTE The DHW heating is activated when you set 'DHW AUTO' operating mode and while one or both heating zone is in 'day mode'. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Summary of standard programs 'ON' the set day temperature 'OFF' the set night temperature After selection, the display contains the program description, as shown in the table. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. USER NOTE If you wish to select a program for heating zone 2, for example, you must first select heating zone 2. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications.
USER NOTE If two heating zones are installed, the vacation program will apply to both heating zones if both are in automatic mode. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Press the 'Day mode' or 'Night mode' key on the remote control of the particular heating circuit (if installed), or the controls itself. Continuing a vacation program Press 'AUT' to select automatic mode. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. The heating is restarted if the 'adjusted outdoor temperature' falls below the factory-set changeover threshold of 63°F (17°C).
This symbol no longer appears on the display. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Reverse the order described above to set constant Winter mode. Hold down the 'WWSD' key and turn the dial until 'WINTER' appears. The 'SUMMER' symbol no longer appears on the display. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications.
However, the relevant function must first be activated at the service level by your heating contractor. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. (in this case 'DHW PROD'). The display shows the current DHW temperature. DHW PROD °F Release the 'Display' key.
DHW PROD °F The standard display is stored. 4.30pm Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. If the flashing display agrees with the current day and time, press the 'Time' key once.
If this is not the case, please enter the time manually as described above. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. In the spring turn the clock forward, in the fall turn it back. Release the 'Time' key. TIME The time has now been saved.
2.00am Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. (in the remote control or external) to the electronic controls are automatically compensated by raising or lowering the boiler water temperature. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. 12 Remote control Item 1: 'WWSD' LED Item 2: 'Day mode' key Item 3: 'AUT' key Item 4: 'Night mode' key Item 5: Dial Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. You are having a party and want the rooms to be heated for longer.
Press the 'day mode' key. After the party, press 'AUT' to return to automatic mode. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Press the 'Day mode' key, if you want to heat at short notice in summer mode.
Press the 'Night mode' key, if you want to interrupt summer mode. The controls will then remain constantly in Winter mode. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Example In the Family program, we are moving the heating ON time for heating zone 2 on Monday from 5.30am to 6.30am (Fig. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications.
Release the 'Time' key to store your input. OWN PROG 1 'OWN PROG 1' is now displayed since you have changed the standard °F program into a customized program. 6.30am Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Hold down the 'PROG' key and turn the dial until the desired standard program (in this case 'FAMILY') is displayed. The 'FAMILY' standard program has now been selected. FAMILY Release the 'PROG' key. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications.
The switching point can still be changed while dashes appear on the display. The new switching point is not stored until you release the 'Temp' key. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications.
Turn the dial until the switching point of the heating phase that you wish to delete is displayed, e.g.: 11.30am'. Hold down the 'Time' key and turn the dial to the desired value (in this case '1.00pm'). Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications.
Release the 'Time' key before all the eights have disappeared. The switching points of the heating phases are retained. Press the 'AUT' key to return to the standard display. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. The 'NOON' standard program has now been selected.
Release the 'PROG' key. NOON °F The display shows the first switching point for the 'NOON' standard program. 6.00am Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Release the 'Time' key before all the eights have disappeared. The switching points of the heating phases are retained.
Press the 'AUT' key to return to the standard display. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Hold down the 'Time' key and turn the dial until the desired time for the new switching point appears, e.g. Release the 'Time' key. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Enter all the other the switching points for other days in the order described above (specifying the day, time and temperature).
Press the 'AUT' key to return to the standard display. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Check whether there is a fault message on the controls’ display. Z Report the fault initially by telephone to your heating contractor. Have the faults remedied by your heating contractor immediately. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications.
USER NOTE No DHW can be produced if the DHW tank charging pump is defective, even in 'emergency mode'. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. (clock power reserve: approx. 5 – 8 hours).
If the power reserve is exhausted, the display jumps to Monday, 12.00am. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. If a mixer is installed for heating circuit 2, the mixing valve must be set manually in emergency mode so that overheating (underfloor heating) is prevented. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. If the DHW temperature is set to above 122°F (50°C), you should only draw off mixed hot and cold water. Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications.
71°F (21°C) Night room temperature 50 – 84°F (10 – 29°C) 63°F (17°C) Vacation room temperature 50 – 86°F (10 – 30 °C) 63°F (17°C) Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Do not open any hot water tap without mixing in cold water, if the DHW circuit of WARNING! Your heating system is not equipped with a thermostatic mixer! Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Power loss. 61 Program selection.32 Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications. Notes Logamatic 2107 controls - We reserve the right to make any changes due to technical modifications.
United States and Canada Bosch Thermotechnology Corporation 50 Wentworth Avenue Londonderry, NH 03053 U.S.A. 603-552-1100 Fax 603-584-1681 www.buderus.net Products manufactured by Bosch Thermotechnik GmbH D-35573 Wetzlar www.buderus.de Bosch Thermotechnology Corporation reserves the right to make changes without notice due to continuing.
Welcome to the The Garage Journal Board forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please,! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact. Here's a few shots of mine.
Set it up last year and had it set at 58 degrees. This year I'm setting it at 60. Download matlab 2008a full. I think some heat from the pipes is affecting the thermostat, that's why I bumped it up a bit.
I need to insulate the pipes a bit more. Probably should have placed the thermostat a little further away.hindsight. Very happy with the overall operation, no regrets. The system does not run very often at all, the garage is very well insulated. Hope that helps. Thanks for posting the picts.just out of curiosity how did you get all the air out of the system with you air seperator not at the highest point?
How big of an area are you heating with it? That looks great!!
What is the minimum flow rate on your Hydro Shark boiler? I assume you're asking about minimum flow rate before it will start heating, such as on some gas fired heaters??
HydroSharks, and other Seisco manufactured heaters do not have a minimum flow rate to induce heating. Rather, they use a system that maintains and monitors a very slight temperature difference between the input and output. Just as soon as that difference is not maintained the boiler kicks on to full heat, where it will remain as long as the output temp is below the desired level.
Once the heater is able to maintain the desire output temp it starts modulating back to a lower power level which it adjusts as needed to maintain output temp. Once water flow stops the output temp will obviously jump up, at which point the hetaer shuts down completely. Simple system that works very well.
I am using a 7KW Siesco to heat my 30 x40 pole building, works great. What are your heating bills?
Not cheap, depending on your perspective. I figure that my shop is my entertainment. I don't go to the bars, I spend very little money anywhere else. In the last 26 days I've used 895KW, yes I went and read the meter just for you(not really, I'm keeping some records and I read it every time I go out there). So, apply that to your local rates. I keep the temp at 58.
in 1/3, 50. in the other 2/3rds 24-7, which is plenty warm for me if I'm moving around, I don't wear a coat to the shop. My average electric bill for the shop(seperate meter) the last 14 months has been $65/month. The encouraging part this year is that I was only heating 16x30 last winter, made some insulation improvements over the summer.
This year I am heating the entire 30x40 for the same or less $$$. Yes, I could do it cheaper with gas, however there are a number of factors that prevent me from doing it right now. Ok so maybe I have some issues of not leaving well enough alone.after i tripped on some left over alum. Diamond plate and started thinking hey this would look good on the radiant system.this is the final product and it woorks great accept the lux themostat wich apeared to be doa.replaced it this weekend and everything works great now.going to try a slab. Temp at 62f and we will see how much that costs a month and go from there.now its time to get back to finishing the rest of the shop.thanks to everyone for posting there picts.
Erodz, That's a clean well thought out system, out of the way in a corner near the breaker panel. I like the diamond plate. I may have to steal that idea for mine. I need to protect the pex from the floor up about 4' to the manifolds.
I'll post a pic later of what I have so far. One thing I noticed about this thread.
You have a 10k heater for 650sf and tdkkart has a 7k for 1200sf. How did each of you arrive at the size to use? I haven't bought mine yet, and have about 950 well insulated sf. And please do keep us informed of the electric cost. I have asked this question before and rarely get details like tdkkart gave above.
Erodz, That's a clean well thought out system, out of the way in a corner near the breaker panel. I like the diamond plate. I may have to steal that idea for mine. I need to protect the pex from the floor up about 4' to the manifolds. I'll post a pic later of what I have so far.
One thing I noticed about this thread. You have a 10k heater for 650sf and tdkkart has a 7k for 1200sf. How did each of you arrive at the size to use? I haven't bought mine yet, and have about 950 well insulated sf. And please do keep us informed of the electric cost.
I have asked this question before and rarely get details like tdkkart gave above. The boiler that I used is a little bigger that recomended but I do live in MN.
And if you look close I am trying to plan for the future I am going to add another loop when I add a infloor lift and I will coil some tubes around the lift to just heat the center of the other bay that is 26x30 hopefully that works or the boiler just runs less??? Don't know if you care, but looking at that pic, the location of your breaker panel to the heat stuff is a code violation. 'No gas, electric, water, fastened in place furniture such as counter tops fastened to wall or any other foreign products not related to that panel is allowed in that 30'wide dedicated wall space with 36' clear approach both being from ceiling to floor. There are two exceptions.
If existing then the 36' clear approach may be reduced to 30' making the area 30' x 30' for existing structures as an exception. There is a rule that allows less than 6 1/2' of ceiling height when the residential panel is 200 amps or less.' The boiler that I used is a little bigger that recomended but I do live in MN.
And if you look close I am trying to plan for the future I am going to add another loop when I add a infloor lift and I will coil some tubes around the lift to just heat the center of the other bay that is 26x30 hopefully that works or the boiler just runs less??? It all makes sense now. Thanks for the explanation. I should have picked up on the capped off manifold. I forgot to take a pic last night. Oh well, maybe tonight.
Sorry I had a brainfart there. Been up for too long and somehow didn't connect the 2 pics together.
It's pretty clear the tank is there in the 2nd pic Derr Derr Derr! The min clearance on the breaker panel isn't the end of the world, but I just mentioned it in case you didn't know. Good deal that you looked into it though. Curious for all you all. Are you guys going to insulate the copper pipes??
I am planning on doing mine in the near future. The garage loop almost never comes on because of the heat I loose off the pipes. It keeps it at 70.
and I have it set to 50.! If you did all that work yourself, I can imagine it took some research! Are the white boxes on the wall digital temp gauges?? Nate, Yes, I did all the work myself on this. You are right in that I did a ton of research on this - it was my first attempt at doing something like this and I really learned a lot. The little white boxes on the wall are the digital thermostats, one for each zone. I found out after the fact that this was one small errors I made.
They should actually be in the room that the zone is heating since they ideally are intended to sense both air temp as well as slab temp. There is nothing really wrong with this since it works fine - just likely to be a bit of overshoot during transitions in spring and fall. GM wow thats a monster boiler for a 9 kw rating! I thought in a earlier post you were heating it with a 7 kw boiler? If you ar heating 1000 sq. Ft what are the run lenghts of your zones?
Not very many tubes coming from the slab.it looks like you have three zones in a 1000 ft is it sectioned off? Why three zones with only one loop per zone? Why three zones? Just trying to get an understanding for a future system. They don't make a 7 kw according to the website. I am fairly certain it is 9, I would have to go outside to check.
I have 3 zones because I have the garage divided into three rooms. One room to park a daily driver in, it gets heated to 4c, the middle workshop area I heat to 10c and the third room I park summer only vehicles so I dont even heat it at all. The boiler isnt that big, but I dont really have anything to compare it to. Well here are a few pics of mine. It's not much to look at yet. This has been a slow process. But at least I have the floor well insulated, the tubing in and manifold hooked up.
I also ran a couple of different 220 lines over because I haven't decided yet on which boiler(one takes a single 60 amp and one takes 2- 40 amp breakers). I can use the extra line, if there is one, for a welder outlet or whatever as it was only an 18' run so not too much in wire. It may be a while till I get a boiler etc. But I am leaning toward a Seisco or Hydro Shark III. As you can see in the next pic I covered the 4' block wall with smooth door cut-outs (They also insulate the edge of the slab) and I will cap them off with a shelf made out of 1x6. I will probable paint the shelf black and incorporate it into some stripes.
Then I will steal E.rods diamond plate idea to protect the pex from the shelf to the floor. Currently waiting on the drywall finisher to sand then I can get painting and put the shelf up etc. The bottom 4' is block and covered by 1 3/4' insulation and is harder to mount to. Plus it is half way along the right side wall and I wanted it high enough to not get run into with anything. Plus all the controls, gauges and such will be at eye level. Also I can still put work benches or tool boxes under it, so I didn't lose any floor space.
Nice job looks like you will have a nice clean system when your done,so far super happy with mine it has been below zero for weeks and the system does not run very often at all.but the first months bill has not arived yet.cant wait for that!keep up the great work. Holy sh!t the first bill came with the electric bill was $350 more than last years for one month great to have heat in the floor but thats nuts this is for heating only 650 sq. With dynomite insulation low ceiling height 3' of foam under the slab. I did leave the room at 61f and let it run for the month to see how much it was going to add to the bill was not quite expecting that my frigging energy bill was almost as much as my morgage payment.then when i dug into the bill a little further I noticed the increase coming up for next year and come on does every majior business get a raise and my wages go backward.
The good news is it is working awsome.bad news is I can't aford to use it.set the therm down to 50f and we will se how that goes. Holy sh!t the first bill came with the electric bill was $350 more than last years for one month great to have heat in the floor but thats nuts this is for heating only 650 sq. With dynomite insulation low ceiling height 3' of foam under the slab. I did leave the room at 61f and let it run for the month to see how much it was going to add to the bill was not quite expecting that my frigging energy bill was almost as much as my morgage payment.then when i dug into the bill a little further I noticed the increase coming up for next year and come on does every majior business get a raise and my wages go backward. The good news is it is working awsome.bad news is I can't aford to use it.set the therm down to 50f and we will se how that goes. Hmmm, somethings wrong, I'm heating 1200sf with a 7KW Seisco to 50., last month's bill was $151, this months looks like it will be just a few $$$ more.
Scary part is last year I was heating only 1/3 of the building for the same money. Before you can compare, we have to know what is your cost per kw/hr.
And E.rodz,Did you buy those insulated doors or how did you get so many for under your floor.how much$$.you did 2 layers for the 3'?? In post 363, in the picture,is the door cut out for the window? And did you fill in that void? Is this what I am seeing? What was the 'R' rating of the doors?
The doors and cutouts came from two door manufactures near me. They were free except for the fuel and time to go get them. The full doors were drilled or cut wrong and yes where the window was cut out I used other cutouts to fill them back in. I put down two layers. Each layer is 1 5/8' thick. R is around 8 per inch. Here is a link to another thread about them.
Hi I'm new here but Garages/shops and anything related have always intrigued me. Have any of you guys run your system with and outdoor wood boiler?? My cousin built a few for himself and family and friends though they use them for other things. For instance. He Heats his house his hot water, garage, and pool with the single unit. Hes got an air intake valve electronically set up to open when the water gets below a certain temp which feeds more air to the fire making it hotter. Im assuming he just added a heater core in the furnace and the boiler pumps water through that.
For the garage he's got some radiator set up with a fan and the pool is just plumbed through the side. Same with his hot water. ( im not sure how he keeps the pool water and hot water separate.) but it works and works good. I don't see any reason why this could not also be adapted to an in floor system.
Same type of tubing except its in Concrete. Would it heat the concrete too fast??
I know he said cut his propane usage by TONS. Hi I'm new here but Garages/shops and anything related have always intrigued me. Have any of you guys run your system with and outdoor wood boiler?? My cousin built a few for himself and family and friends though they use them for other things. For instance.
He Heats his house his hot water, garage, and pool with the single unit. Hes got an air intake valve electronically set up to open when the water gets below a certain temp which feeds more air to the fire making it hotter.
Im assuming he just added a heater core in the furnace and the boiler pumps water through that. For the garage he's got some radiator set up with a fan and the pool is just plumbed through the side. Same with his hot water.
( im not sure how he keeps the pool water and hot water separate.) but it works and works good. I don't see any reason why this could not also be adapted to an in floor system. Same type of tubing except its in Concrete. Would it heat the concrete too fast??
I know he said cut his propane usage by TONS anyone have comments on this? Well here are a few pics of mine. It's not much to look at yet.
This has been a slow process. But at least I have the floor well insulated, the tubing in and manifold hooked up. I also ran a couple of different 220 lines over because I haven't decided yet on which boiler(one takes a single 60 amp and one takes 2- 40 amp breakers). I can use the extra line, if there is one, for a welder outlet or whatever as it was only an 18' run so not too much in wire. It may be a while till I get a boiler etc. But I am leaning toward a Seisco or Hydro Shark III. As you can see in the next pic I covered the 4' block wall with smooth door cut-outs (They also insulate the edge of the slab) and I will cap them off with a shelf made out of 1x6.
I will probable paint the shelf black and incorporate it into some stripes. Then I will steal E.rods diamond plate idea to protect the pex from the shelf to the floor. Currently waiting on the drywall finisher to sand then I can get painting and put the shelf up etc. Nice Install!! Where did you purchase your manifolds and tubing?
They look really similar to some materials on ebay that I'm looking at purchasing. Any more setup pics? Here is my setup in my old 30x40 shop (I sold that house). It is a 85kbtu boiler, which is non-condensing, so it needs input protection, so there is a primary loop around the boiler, a secondary loop around the floor tubes, and a variable speed injection pump between the two that injects hot water from the primary loop into the secondary loop. It monitors the water going to the floor so it isn't too hot, and it monitors the water going back into the boiler to keep it warm so as to keep the boiler in it's effeciency range and not 'stall' or 'flood' it with too much cold water coming in. All of that could be eliminated by using a condensing boiler or water heater which like to have cold water as an input (which keeps it in it's effeciency range) and I would have only needed one pump and a lot less pipe.
But the dude sold me the system and I couldn't return it so there you go, I learned a lot about hydronics. So this is an example of something technically cool, but not a practical real-world application. Any more setup pics? Here is a great one from a friend's dad's shop. This is the way to go for a simple one-zone system in a shop, imo. A cheap condensing boiler (. Looks like some manifolds utilize a simple copper setup with a series of T's and on/off valves with pex connectors.
Yet some have what looks to be a thermometer attached to one manifold and some type of adjustment on the opposite manifold in what situations are the different types needed. I have a 54x83 pole building insulated with 3/4' pex in the floor and im trying to figure out what type of manifold to get. IMO you always want the therms on the feed and return to let you know how much temperature is getting put into the floor. Most manifolds with those temp gauges also have gpm guages showing the flow of each zone and adjustment used for balancing each zone. Holy sh!t the first bill came with the electric bill was $350 more than last years for one month great to have heat in the floor but thats nuts Erodz Get that cost factor figured out yet?
When we first set up my system (sorry no pics) it was an arm and a leg to run. I took some time but we got the system balanced out but my cost have dropped a lot.
For me it was a matter of how much hot water was entering the system at a given time. We needed to adjust the proportioning value (heat mixing valve?) to allow much less 'hot' water in. Basically the system was getting too much hot water at a time.
Now the valve only lets in a small amount of hot water while the pump is running. The pump runs longer but I use less heated water.
Just a thought, hope you get it figured out. I just realized I didn't have a picture of my system in here. So, here it is. This is heating a 1200sf pole building.
7KW Siesco/HydroShark. Most of what you see was the original installation heating only 1/3 of the building, hence the 2 loop manifolds near the floor. It was also running on a 40gallon tank type heater.
I've since changed over to the Siesco and added 4 more loops which are on the ends of the pipes you see along the wall on the right. I added a 2nd pump for the 4 loops, checkvalves in the pumps prevent water from going the wrong direction. Today is December 17, since Nov. 16th I have used 1386KW, 50KW more than I used during the same period last year. Erodz Get that cost factor figured out yet? When we first set up my system (sorry no pics) it was an arm and a leg to run.
I took some time but we got the system balanced out but my cost have dropped a lot. For me it was a matter of how much hot water was entering the system at a given time. We needed to adjust the proportioning value (heat mixing valve?) to allow much less 'hot' water in.
Basically the system was getting too much hot water at a time. Now the valve only lets in a small amount of hot water while the pump is running.
The pump runs longer but I use less heated water. Just a thought, hope you get it figured out.
Yep once i got everything ballenced out and everything up to temp.turned it down to 55f and just left it there it is tollerable.still with I would have went with gas.but it works awsome and to pull the snowmobile in after riding and park it over a floor drain and a floor with heat is just awsome! I have a question for you guys with the hydroshark boilers. I just bought mine and all over the box and on the boiler theres a sticker saying the boiler must be connected to a system with primary and secondary pumps and if not the warranty is void. I already bought all my components and am ready to hook up my system but i have planned out a system with only one pump. Im afraid of hooking it up the way i have planned after seeing the warnings. Im not really worried about the warrranty but more so of reducing the lifspan of the boiler. All the systems ive seen on here are set up as a single pump system as far as i can tell.
How long have you guys had your boilers up and running and have you had any problems? I have a question for you guys with the hydroshark boilers. I just bought mine and all over the box and on the boiler theres a sticker saying the boiler must be connected to a system with primary and secondary pumps and if not the warranty is void. I already bought all my components and am ready to hook up my system but i have planned out a system with only one pump. Im afraid of hooking it up the way i have planned after seeing the warnings. Im not really worried about the warrranty but more so of reducing the lifspan of the boiler.
All the systems ive seen on here are set up as a single pump system as far as i can tell. How long have you guys had your boilers up and running and have you had any problems? I noticed the same thing on the side of mine.
I purchased a 12kw, but I also purchased it as apart of a Pro Panel set up so the plumbing is all there already. Honestly i would buy the additional pump. The incremental cost for another pump is nothing compared to voiding the warranty on the $$$ boiler in my mind. Free download lagu sesungguhnya aku tak rela melihat kau dengannya. I have a question for you guys with the hydroshark boilers.
I just bought mine and all over the box and on the boiler theres a sticker saying the boiler must be connected to a system with primary and secondary pumps and if not the warranty is void. I already bought all my components and am ready to hook up my system but i have planned out a system with only one pump. Im afraid of hooking it up the way i have planned after seeing the warnings. Im not really worried about the warrranty but more so of reducing the lifspan of the boiler.
All the systems ive seen on here are set up as a single pump system as far as i can tell. How long have you guys had your boilers up and running and have you had any problems? I did not read the instructions until I was allready finished with the install gave it alot of thought and just went with one pump.the unit power can not come on until there is flow so my thinking was if there is no flow the unit just wont come on.it has been running for about a year now with no problems. I think a good old fassion game of flip a coin to decide should work.lol. I did not read the instructions until I was allready finished with the install gave it alot of thought and just went with one pump.the unit power can not come on until there is flow so my thinking was if there is no flow the unit just wont come on.it has been running for about a year now with no problems.
I think a good old fassion game of flip a coin to decide should work.lol. I read through the instructions before i purchased all my parts but they didn't mention anything about two pumps. I went ahead an assembled it how i originally had it planned with one pump.
Hopefully i will have it up and running in the next couple weeks but i have to get my garage doors on first. Yep once i got everything ballenced out and everything up to temp.turned it down to 55f and just left it there it is tollerable.still with I would have went with gas.but it works awsome and to pull the snowmobile in after riding and park it over a floor drain and a floor with heat is just awsome! That sounds about right for temp. I keep mine at only a few degrees warmer then that (14 c).
I find that any warmer is too warm for working in with in floor heat. The air temp may be lower but with the floor radiating heat I get warm fast when in the shop. It feels a little cool when I first start working but I get warm fast. Glad you got that set up better. I agree with you on the sled. Wish I still had one however it is great to pull the quad in after a winter ride or plowing and let it melt over the drain.
Even better with a vehicle as it melts the underside fast. Unlike FA Heat where it just melts the top side and the bottom still has ice on it. That sounds about right for temp. I keep mine at only a few degrees warmer then that (14 c). I find that any warmer is too warm for working in with in floor heat.
The air temp may be lower but with the floor radiating heat I get warm fast when in the shop. It feels a little cool when I first start working but I get warm fast. 50. works great for me too, just a bit cool if you're standing around, plenty warm if you're moving. WAY different than my old shop with forced air, had to be set at 70. to be comfortable. Heres afew photos of my install Specs are as follows:.
54x83 Shop. 6' min.
As recently installed during the NE blizzard last weekend. The purchase of a panel ready to install was the best money spent for me at least. I couldn't of bought the parts for the price I got the system for, much less it would not have looked this pretty when installed. Took less than 24hrs for the slab to get up to 50 degrees, slab is fully insulated as are the vertical stem walls with thermal breaks at the OH doors. Dense pack cellulose insulation in walls and in the second floor ceiling.
Garage is 36x30 with std construction 2x6 walls. Couldn't be happier to put a check next to this todo item for the garage.
Here's a system I went to look at before I setup my system. Well insulated 3600 sq ft building with at least a 20' ceiling. It had 13 - 1/2' PEX loops. It was a very simple system, consisted of an electric boiler ( I think it was 120K BTU), one temperature gauge, a homemade PVC tank, thermostat, and a single pump. The PVC tank had fluid in it and was open to the atmosphere.
Anyone ever seen a system like this before? He'd been running it for two years now, and loved it. He kept the thermostat set at 56. Heres afew photos of my install Specs are as follows:.
54x83 Shop. 6' min. As recently installed during the NE blizzard last weekend.
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The purchase of a panel ready to install was the best money spent for me at least. I couldn't of bought the parts for the price I got the system for, much less it would not have looked this pretty when installed. Took less than 24hrs for the slab to get up to 50 degrees, slab is fully insulated as are the vertical stem walls with thermal breaks at the OH doors. Dense pack cellulose insulation in walls and in the second floor ceiling. Garage is 36x30 with std construction 2x6 walls. Couldn't be happier to put a check next to this todo item for the garage. Rob What are you supply and return temperatures when the boiler is running and what is the thermostat set?
I also have a hydroshark boiler but decided to build my own system instead of buying the panel. I have my thermostat set at 50 degrees and my supply temp is 110 and the return into the boiler is between 70 and 80. I have a 3 speed pump and have it set on the highest setting. Im debating on adding a second pump.
Ezzie, I see from your post a year ago that you installed a Triangle Tube. I just did the same installation for my house heating. I noticed in your post, which is a year old, that your condensate drain goes into a bucket and not to a condensate pump. Was there a particular reason you didn't install one? My installation is only 2 months old, and the condensate pump crapped out on Christmas day. Water all over the basement floor, but not a big deal.
I don't have a floor drain or I'd use that. I'm now trying to figure out a good backup system for the condensate pump (different from the secondary circuit switch on most pumps that you can use to shut the boiler etc off) so potential flooding doesn't happen again. What are you supply and return temperatures when the boiler is running and what is the thermostat set? I also have a hydroshark boiler but decided to build my own system instead of buying the panel. I have my thermostat set at 50 degrees and my supply temp is 110 and the return into the boiler is between 70 and 80. I have a 3 speed pump and have it set on the highest setting.
Im debating on adding a second pump. What 3 speed pump and how many loops / length / od? You can figure that out really quick using a flow chart for your pump. What are you supply and return temperatures when the boiler is running and what is the thermostat set? I also have a hydroshark boiler but decided to build my own system instead of buying the panel. I have my thermostat set at 50 degrees and my supply temp is 110 and the return into the boiler is between 70 and 80.
I have a 3 speed pump and have it set on the highest setting. Im debating on adding a second pump. Mine is set at 50 degrees, my supply temp is set at 120, the gauge reads about 100 or so on supply side.
The return is about 70-80 depending on how long it runs. It doesn't run for very long, it never gets to the set 120 that i have seen. The supply heat pump is set at the lowest setting and the second pump that feeds the loops is at the fastest setting. I could slow it down a bit, but it doesn't seem to be causing any issues on high. The temp gauges on the manifold supply at above 90 and return around 60-70 The secondary pump does a quasi mixing with the water that the first pump forces in to the loop. If that makes sense. To answer the other question.
Purchased at Hydro-smart spent about $1800 ish shipped with a couple of extras. Mine is set at 50 degrees, my supply temp is set at 120, the gauge reads about 100 or so on supply side.
The return is about 70-80 depending on how long it runs. It doesn't run for very long, it never gets to the set 120 that i have seen. The supply heat pump is set at the lowest setting and the second pump that feeds the loops is at the fastest setting. I could slow it down a bit, but it doesn't seem to be causing any issues on high. The temp gauges on the manifold supply at above 90 and return around 60-70 The secondary pump does a quasi mixing with the water that the first pump forces in to the loop. If that makes sense. To answer the other question.
Purchased at Hydro-smart spent about $1800 ish shipped with a couple of extras. Rob Thanks rlme36. Your the first person that ive come across with any feedback on the panels. I was thinking about adding a second pump into my system.
But seeing that all my temperatures are very similar to yours i don't think i need to. Mine is set at 50 degrees, my supply temp is set at 120, the gauge reads about 100 or so on supply side. The return is about 70-80 depending on how long it runs. It doesn't run for very long, it never gets to the set 120 that i have seen. The supply heat pump is set at the lowest setting and the second pump that feeds the loops is at the fastest setting.
I could slow it down a bit, but it doesn't seem to be causing any issues on high. The temp gauges on the manifold supply at above 90 and return around 60-70 The secondary pump does a quasi mixing with the water that the first pump forces in to the loop.
If that makes sense. To answer the other question. Purchased at Hydro-smart spent about $1800 ish shipped with a couple of extras. Rob It looks like the mixing valve is wide open, is that where you have been running it?
I have a grundfos 1/25 hp pump and have 5 loops of about 250'. I did the friction loss calculations and the pump falls within the pump curve. The reason i asked is because i thought the supply and return temps on my system would be closer. I thought i read they should be within 20 degrees or each other but i cant find were i read that.
Thanks rlme36. Your the first person that ive come across with any feedback on the panels. I was thinking about adding a second pump into my system. But seeing that all my temperatures are very similar to yours i don't think i need to.
I have read that the pressure loss through the Hydroshark is big - 5 to 7 psi. If that is the case that takes a serious pump just for that. I sent an email today to Hydrosmart (the official dealer according to Stiebel Eltron the manufacturer) asking what it really is, if you can get by without the primary secondary loop, and what pump they recommend for the primary loop. I am waiting for a response. I found one set of instructions for the Hydroshark II that show a single loop system, now the installation instructions for the Hydroshark III only show a primary/secondary setup. I would guess this is because the pressure drop through it. The rest of instructions and specs are vague.
They are affordable but those 3/4 fittings seem a bit smallish for boiler work. Hey ERodz, did you ever observe your gpm flow while your pump was running? I have a TT Solo 60 and a 7.5KW Shark (small one looks like yours). My plan is to arrange them so I can activate the Shark as a pre-heater by phone before I head up there (to the U. P.) from here (MN). I can operate some ball valves and turn on the gas when I arrive. I too want to arrange it in a series single pump config driven with a smart pump (Grundfos Alpha).
The only gpm obsevation that i did is when i was purging the air out of the system and it could fill a 5 gal pail in about 3 min. Thats all i got for you. If you need any more let me know. I have read that the pressure loss through the Hydroshark is big - 5 to 7 psi.
If that is the case that takes a serious pump just for that. I sent an email today to Hydrosmart (the official dealer according to Stiebel Eltron the manufacturer) asking what it really is, if you can get by without the primary secondary loop, and what pump they recommend for the primary loop. I am waiting for a response. I found one set of instructions for the Hydroshark II that show a single loop system, now the installation instructions for the Hydroshark III only show a primary/secondary setup.
I would guess this is because the pressure drop through it. The rest of instructions and specs are vague. They are affordable but those 3/4 fittings seem a bit smallish for boiler work. If you could let us know of your findings!
I have a grundfos 1/25 hp pump and have 5 loops of about 250'. I did the friction loss calculations and the pump falls within the pump curve. The reason i asked is because i thought the supply and return temps on my system would be closer. I thought i read they should be within 20 degrees or each other but i cant find were i read that. Thanks rlme36. Your the first person that ive come across with any feedback on the panels.
I was thinking about adding a second pump into my system. But seeing that all my temperatures are very similar to yours i don't think i need to. Well, I don't know if mine is set up perfectly, since there wasn't any instructions on pump speed. I may reduce the 2nd pump so the hot water stays in the pipes longer just to see the impact. I realize they are different (kinda the same, but no fluid exchange), but don't they both need four pipes? Must be the angle of the photo. Are you saying that is your source of your DHW in lieu of a coil in a tank?
Pumps must run a lot? You are correct, it does have 4 pipes. Hot in from heater and return, in from floor and return. Pumps only run when either floor calls for heat. You can see the four gauges, two small units indicating temp and two larger tridicators indicating temp / pressure on either side of the heat exchanger. Its actually quite a bit simpler than it looks.
You basically have a pump fed loop running off to the side of your standard water setup. When a floor calls for heat, it simply kicks in both the floor pump ( one of the green Taco's ) and the larger domestic side pump.
Regular domestic hot water is not effected by the floors. The little green unit under the taco switching relay is simply an auto fill valve assembly which ensures the system is always topped up and running at the appropriate pressure. Its just fed with the standard cold water supply as we do not use a mix. I have a question for you are you are you going to run a boiler also or just a geo thermo. Are you going to heat the shop more than that?not quite sure how that works.if you could educate us that would be great.
Ps shop looks awsome keep up the great work sorry for not replying for afew months I am using geothermal heating as my only heat source. They have two types of geothermal heaters water to forced air, and water to water. I am using water to water, just like a boiler the way it works is, there is a refrigerant compressor inside the unit and as it condenses the refrigerant heat is given off just like any typical air conditioner. With water I am capturing that heat and putting it into my holding tank for the infloor heat (typical 130 degrees), but also like any air conditioner cold refrigerant is also a byproduct. To 'warm up' the cold refrigerant it runs through another water source that comes from 4,600' of pipe directional bored into the earth 30' deep under my shop floor. It gets more complicated than that as I am running a two stage setup with multiple compressors that are all multi-speed, but its way cheap to run and I kept my shop (54x83 w/ 16' ceiling) at 70 degrees all winter long.
Whoa there, can we back up just a little bit?? 'For me it was a matter of how much hot water was entering the system at a given time. We needed to adjust the proportioning value (heat mixing valve?) to allow much less 'hot' water in.
Basically the system was getting too much hot water at a time. Now the valve only lets in a small amount of hot water while the pump is running.
The pump runs longer but I use less heated water. Just a thought, hope you get it figured out.' - 'yep once i got everything ballenced out and everything up to temp.turned it down to 55f and just left it there it is tollerable.' - Guys, can you please expand on that a bit?
I just finished the plumbing aspect on my system using a 9.6kw hydroshark, but still need a thermostat and the anti freeze before I can fire up the system. I'd rather avoid the 'arm and a leg' time period if possible! I can't spare an arm and a leg at the moment. I've got a primary/boiler pump on the left.and secondary/circulator pump on the right, just like this one: After I get it filled and running, should I be looking at reducing flow through the primary/boiler pump?
Both pumps are 3 speed.should I start out with the boiler pump on 'low', and then reduce the flow even more by closing the valves next to it also? Or is the flow of boiler water best reduced from another point?
Please educate me, I really need to get my brain wrapped around this before I fire up the system. The I sheet that came with the panel is fine for helping me hook it up and make it work (and I am a bit of a bonehead, so it did help), but there isn't any info in there in 'how to run it without going broke' (probably the most important part!). The money and time misspent is always astounding. Not bad on the Buderus GB though. I give you credit for reading the installation manual.
Using a water heater as a dedicated heat source for radiant floors takes a little more than reflected here. But no worries, you will get another chance in about five years. Do be sure to keep your CO detector full of new batteries. All parts from Menard's?good luck with that. I design a lot of systems, but repair more. The guys at Menard's complain that the customers too often ask for help after the fact. Pumps installed with vertical shafts 'up' or 'down' are one of the clearest signs of a novice hydronic man, be he amateur or professional.
Just to be clear, air is death to all hydronic systems and some people who run their boilers dry.especially true of electric boilers (more DIY I suspect). Air is not hard to eliminate if the system is designed right.
Boilers, and pumps are almost always over-sized in almost every residential and light commercial hydronic heating system for lack of a proper heat load analysis and simple, proven design parameters. IMGThis is a bad thing and a waste of resources. Here is my system. The main reason I am posting this is to show that you don't have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to have in floor heat. Some people have more money in copper fittings than I do into my whole system. So try not to laugh or criticize too much, my in floor is as simple as it gets, as cheap as it gets, and works really really well.
1st pic shows my wood boiler, which I designed and built myself. It works well. Heating my 1500 sq ft house only, it consumes about 5 cords of wood/winter which is pretty damn decent here in MI. With the shop tacked on I am averaging about 8 cords. The shop is 200 ft away from the boiler, and pex was laid in a trench and then sprayfoamed over. 1000 sq ft, 2 'zones', 16' on center runs, with faucet style valves on each one to help with zone control, although both are wide open and I see no need to change it.
The rest is simple. A 24 volt transformer sends voltage to a digital thermostat on the wall which turns a 24 volt relay on and off, which switches the pump on and off. No heat exchangers are used, boilerwater goes through the floor.
A mixing valve has been added to reduce water temp entering the floor from 180 to about 90 degrees. The bucket is used to purge air out of the system, as my shop is uphill from the boiler bleeding the air out was a challenge. This is the first year I have been running it and it works great. Now back to your fancy beautiful polished copper systems with gauges and do-dads galore.
1 Applications Manual Gas condensing boiler WARNING! Improper installation, adjustment, alteration, service or maintenance can cause injury, loss of life or property damage. Refer to the installation and operating manuals. For assistance or additional information, consult a trained and certified installer, service agency or the gas supplier.
The installation and operating manuals are part of the documentation that is delivered to the installation's operator. Go through the information in this manual with the owner/operator and make sure that he or she is familiar with the appliance and its operation. In the Commonwealth of Massachusetts this boiler must be installed by a licensed Plumber or Gas Fitter.
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